TLH Ep.52 Building a Law Firm That Outlives Its Founders
Hello, The Legal Helm listeners
Welcome to The Legal Helm, where we explore the evolving intersection of law, leadership, and business strategy.
In today’s episode, we’re joined by Ivy Slater, CEO of Slater Success—a consulting, coaching, and training company that helps business owners and leadership teams design strategic growth plans, scale with purpose, and build succession strategies that support long-term legacy.
Ivy is also the author of Best of the Best: Lead Boldly, Scale Rapidly, Create Your Legacy, as well as a podcast host and TEDx speaker.
In this conversation, we explore a topic many organizations delay until it becomes urgent—the intersection of strategic planning and succession planning—and why addressing both early is critical for sustainable growth and leadership continuity.
Stay tuned for an insightful and practical discussion on building businesses that are designed to last.
Your host
Bim Dave is Helm360’s CEO. With 20+ years in the legal industry, his keen understanding of how law firms and lawyers use technology has propelled Helm360 to the industry’s forefront. A technical expert with a penchant for developing solutions that improve business systems and user experience, Bim has a knack for bringing high quality IT architects and developers together to create innovative, useable solutions to the legal arena.
Today’s guest
Ivy Slater is the CEO of Slater Success, a consulting, coaching, and training company that helps business owners and their teams develop and implement strategic growth plans, scale with purpose, and build succession strategies for long-term legacy. A former printing company owner, Ivy brings decades of entrepreneurial and leadership experience to her work. She is the author of her third and latest book, BEST OF THE BEST: Lead Boldly, Scale Rapidly, Create Your Legacy. Ivy is a TEDx speaker and a sought-after voice on stages across the country. She hosts the weekly podcast Her Success Story, where she interviews bold and dynamic leaders. Her insights have been featured on ABC, CBS, and in publications including Ladders, Authority Magazine, and Real Simple.
Transcript
Bim Dave: Hello and welcome to “The Legal Helm.” I’m your host, Bim Dave, and today’s guest is Ivy Slater, CEO of Slater Success, a consulting, coaching, and training company that helps business owners and their teams develop and implement strategic growth plans, scale with purpose, and build succession strategies for long-term legacy.
Ivy is the author of her latest book, “Best of the Best: Lead Boldly, Scale Rapidly, Create Your Legacy.” She is also a successful podcast host and TEDx speaker. Today, we’re exploring something many firms avoid until it becomes urgent, the intersection of strategy planning and succession planning. Ivy, welcome to the show.
Bim Dave: Indeed. So, so I w- I, I wondered, um, if we could start with the fact that I’ve, I’ve read somewhere that you owned and scaled a printing company before becoming a strategic, strategist. I’d love to learn a little bit more about your, your, your kind of journey, um, as, as an entrepreneur.
Ivy Slater: So, um, I always actually, i- in my 20s, I always wanted to own my own business, and I looked to start one company. I was 27 years old. I needed a half a million dollars, and at the time I had a small leased apartment and a leased car, so that wasn’t happening. Then I look- looked to buy a franchise, and same thing.
Wasn’t enough, you know, less money, still didn’t have enough money. So I started sa- uh, sales in printing and started doing very Well
And after I had my first child, I asked for a piece of the business because I saw numbers-wise that my sales were equaling the t- the owner’s sales. I was like, “Okay, so I am supporting the overhead.”
‘Cause the one thing I learned is you have to know your numbers. Numbers tell a story throughout so much. Um, after a lot of back and forth, I, um, got 10% ownership, so small junior partner. Continued to sell and within a few months, the head of production left because he also had 10%. He said, “I would never be partners with a woman.”
This was, you know, this a long time ago, and hopefully times have changed. Um, in that way, I, you know, I left and I said, “Well, it’s time to go big. Let’s, let’s, let’s grow this company.” And, um, there was, there was, of course, a little resistance, and I pushed and I, um, kind of facilitated a merger of a $3.5 million company, which we were a stronger company, and it was def- definitely a good acquisition ’cause it allowed me to have a second child, which was the goal at the time.
I’m always like, “Understand what the goal is and what the path to achieve that goal is.” Um, that lasted about five years. Opened the door one day, one Monday morning and half the office was cleaned out. And guess what? The merger was over. So, um, that day I opened my own printing company. I… 100% me, and I said: “Let’s do this.”
I had a two and a five-year-old, a little crazy, a little insane, um, and scaled that company and built a really unique relationships, great business. Um, the one thing I knew is my clients are my clients, you know? And the one thing I’ve always valued is the value of relationships. So when it went from one thing to another to another, I was never concerned about losing the brand, ’cause the brand at the time was very much tied to me and my client base, and it didn’t know, didn’t matter what the big name on the door was, as long as I was tied to it.
And that’s how I scaled. Um, and honestly, I would say, um, about 45, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll sh- I’ll share the numbers here. I was 45 and I hit the wall and I said, “I’m not gonna die a printer.” I had so many goals and ambitions in my life, so many things I wanted to do. I was a dancer growing up. I wanted to be a producer.
I got fired from my first job there. I was like, “I’m not gonna die a dancer. Um, I’m not gonna die a printer. There has to be so much more. I don’t know what it is. I’m gonna go figure it out.” And I put… started putting a succession plan in place to exit the printing com-company in three years. Um, it was managed in a little less, which was great.
Um, I started scaling Slater Success, so there was, um, those two solid years I was running two businesses, two children. We had two homes. I have the same one husband today. Um, a little crazy. And, um, that, that was, um, really the foundation. But what I started doing early on is I told everybody what I was doing.
I didn’t hide it. I told all my clients. I didn’t tell them I was planning a succession out of printing, but I told them I opened another company. And my first clients in Slater Success started coming to me because they’re like, “I was always thinking of opening a c- a business. Can I tap your brain?” I’m like, “Sure.
What do you need to know?” And they’re like, “Everything. H-How do you, how do you scale it? How are you profitable? How do you pay yourself? H-When do you employ people?” And they just started asking me all these questions, and it’s like, it happens enough times and the light bulb goes off on your head saying: “Is this a business model?”
Bim Dave: Yes. It– what, what, what an inspiring story. Um, as, as the father of a nine-year-old girl, um, this– I, I can imagine myself clipping this and playing this back to her because I think it’s really, really good to see that even with some of the early challenges and, you know, it’s mind-blowing that somebody would actually say that they would not partner with someone because of their, their gender.
It’s, like, ridiculous now. Um, so, so like you, I’m, I’m hoping to, to raise a child that’s powerful and can go and, you know, take, take it to, to all of the men out there and, and build successful businesses because it shouldn’t matter. Um, but really inspirational, so thank, thank you for sharing that. Um, so what, what, what was it– at what point did you kind of make the decision to pivot into coaching and strategic advisory?
Ivy Slater: Um, it, it was ki- it was, it was a little crazy, I w- I will say. Um, I was, I was with a friend, so whe- when I, when I made this decision of I won’t die a printer, it cha- kind of everything, and, and maybe some of the listeners can understand this, was like everything happened at once, right? You know, I just hit that wall, um, and I was like, “Something’s gotta change.”
And I was truly… I was working out with a friend, and we were in a park on the Upper East Side in, in Manhattan, and I said, “Something’s gotta give. Something’s gonna change in my life. I don’t know what it is. I don’t know where I’m gonna turn.” And she just looked at me and she goes, “You ought to become a coach.”
And this is in 2007, so I do wanna preface, this was not p- a profession that was as known as it is well-known today. So she goes, “You ought to become a coach.” And I’m looking out over the fields in the park where my kids used to pl- played soccer, and I’m like, “You want me to coach soccer?” I was like, “I, I, I don’t know how to play soccer.”
And she’s like, “What are you talking about soccer?” I was like, “Well, the kid…” You know? Like baseball, like what, what am I coaching? I said, “Jun…” And I, I was a dancer. I, I danced for over 20 years in my early years. I have a degree in dance. I have a degree in communications, and I blew out my knee at 23, and they said, “Never dance again.”
And, um, I went home then and I hit the computer and I’m like, “What is coaching?” What is coaching? And the first page came up with soccer, tennis. Second page had fencing. Page three had professional coaching. And I started, you know, again, I sold printing, so I have a strong, strong belief in market research.
Understand what the market is, understand who your market is, understand where you fit in the market. Um, so I started doing market research, and part of that market research was I spoke to a lot of people I knew, right? Anybody I knew who any- had any kind of connection. Psychotherapist, um, friend I had, uh, my daughter’s friend’s mom was a regular on a, a news show in New York City.
I had coffee with her and I said, “Did you hear about this profession coaching?” And she’s like, “Yeah, we’re getting people on the show that are coaches.” And I said, my… That was question one. Question two was, “Can you pay your bills? Can you earn a living? Is this a career or is this a passing fancy?” Because remember, it is ’07.
I opened the comp- the Slater Success in ’08. And she goes, “I think you could actually potentially make a living. You gotta figure out how.” And as my client, I was sharing it with my printing clients. I had a client who said to me, “Can you helping, help me opening a marketing company?” I’m like… She goes, “I’m gonna leave this big corporate and I’m gonna open my own.
Can you help me open a design firm? Can you help me with this?” And it was through just sharing with people I knew what I thought I was gonna do, and it was a couple of derivatives along the way. Um, and then I started getting more and more into the legal field. Um, clients were recommended to me in the legal field ’cause they’re bril- attorneys are some of the smartest people I know in this world.
I’m spending the evening with a whole bunch of them tonight. Smartest people I know. One of the things is they’re so focused on the law and their, and, and the strategy behind the law and doing well in the law, right? That the components of growing and scaling a firm, which is your financial strategy, your marketing strategy, your sales strategy, your people strategy, a vision, goals, and, you know, a lo- leaving a long-term legacy, and they, they care about that legacy, but they don’t spend the time into putting, necessarily putting the mechanics together.
Bim Dave: Yes, absolutely. So when, when you’re, when you’re talking to some of the firms that you’ve advised previously, are there any patterns that you see repeating across the ones that are successful versus not?
Ivy Slater: Um, I’d say one of the biggest things I hear all the time is, “I’m not ready to– for succession planning. I’m not thinking of retirement yet. Come back to me in a few years.” And I’m always like, “It’s not?
thinking about retirement.” If we think about succession aligned with legacy, you know, one of the things I’ve learned through everything I’ve done in, in my, my career, my family, is life happens and life happens at unexpected moments.
Okay? As a managing partner, as an equity partner, as a leader of firms that have been built, we never know when life will happen. So, um, I’ll give you a, I’ll give you a great example. Let’s say you won the lottery today Okay? And the winnings are a 365-day all-expense paid trip around the world. You just show up with your passport and any particular personal items you wanna take.
Everything is provided for you, okay? Clothes and expe- money to buy whatever you want. You’re traveling around the world by private jet, and you and your partner in this world are like, Yes.
We’re in.” Here’s the caveat, right? You’re- we’re in. Uh, y- you and I are both boarding that plane. The caveat is you have to get on the plane tomorrow morning at 9:00 AM.
Is your firm ready you to just in that moment’s notice? And life happens that way, and that’s where succession isn’t about retirement, succession is about thinking long-term. It’s about building the leadership team that somebody can step in that at a moment’s notice. That if you’re pulled away for any kind of family situation or health situation, you can be present where your priorities are in that moment, and what you have put your t- time, energy, and so much of yourself into this firm has staying power.
Um, a client this year navigated an unexpected health issue, okay? Ca- came out of nowhere, literally. I was supposed to be flying across the country. I was already started the trip because I was doing several clients in a row in different parts on the West Coast, and he’s like, “You can’t come.” I said, “What do you mean I can’t come?”
He goes, “I just came from the doctor. This is going on. I’m gonna be in doctors all week.” And he had to go from his traditional work week to no more than 10 hours a week and just focus on his health. And the firm, I will tell you, it… we’re midyear at this point, has not only been stable, but they’re having their best year ever because systems were put in place.
You know, he had the people in place. He had the systems in place, and that’s what we’ve done the last several years. So it, it’s not something that you do when you’re ready to retire. Succession is something you do when you’re thinking about building strategically for growth and living a great life, because that’s what it gives you the ability to do.
Hopefully we… none of us ever have those oops mona- moments, and it’s– we’re all gonna win that lottery and get on that plane with Bim and I at nine o’clock tomorrow morning, right? You’re on the private jet in London, I’m on the private jet in New York, and we’re gonna pick some exotic place we’re gonna meet tomorrow.
Um-
Bim Dave: 100%. I, I’ll be there.
Ivy Slater: Right. But you– we want, we want it to be a choice, and we want to have everything in place to have wonderful moments and build sustainability in a firm
Bim Dave: No, that, that’s, that’s a really interesting way to look at it actually. So, so are there– If, if I’m kind of a, a listener who’s running my practice at the moment, um, are there any early warning signs that my business is too dependent on individuals? Like what, what, what do you look for as signs to say this is really the time that you should be thinking about this?
Ivy Slater: If you’re stressing that you can’t get away to take a vacation, there’s a problem. Okay? Um, I have a client who takes several three weeks vacation a year. Okay? I have another client who’s getting ready to do four weeks. I have a client who I’m speaking to after this?
Recording, the- these are different people, who’s off to Alasta- Alaska, Vancouver, Toronto, like for several weeks at a time, right?
Because they have put the people and the systems in place so you can scale and enjoy life. You can actually… If that firm is– You are the center axis and the, the firm does not spin without you, that’s where the issue is
Bim Dave: Yeah. No, that’s, that’s a, a really interesting way of looking at it. So, so I wanna, I wanna kind of touch on something that you mentioned earlier around relationships, ’cause I think that’s a really important point in the context of, of what we’re talking about here. Because in law firms especially, like so much value sits inside the relationships that they have with their clients and the institutional knowledge that they have as a firm.
How, how should firms be thinking about protecting that, and how does that play, play out in terms of this kind of scenario where we are going away on this, you know, long-term vacation, the business is running successfully, but at the same time, like as, as a, as a, as a typical attorney and, and partner, I’m thinking my relationships mean everything, and that’s why we’re, we’re winning at the moment.
So how, how does that all play out?
Ivy Slater: So people want the best for you, but they also want the best from you. Okay? So if everything is tied… If the relationship is only tied to you at the firm, then you disappearing for 365 days is gonna beco- that relationship, they don’t, they, they can’t trust those others, right? Yet, if you have built a solid team with you and your relationships are coming in and out of different touch points within your firm unit and the people there, then they’re like, “Oh, you’re– But, but I know John, I know Mary, I know Sue, I, I know Fred.
It’s not a problem. Let me just call him.” You know? You know, “He does great work.” And you might be able to touch base occasionally, but it’s not dependent on you. And that’s where I talk about building a solid team within. And some people are too afraid or nervous to let their relationships go out to their people.
Like, “I have to control it and I’ll delegate the work.” Yet if you pe- bring people in, you’re build- you’re teaching your people how to build relationships, which will also grow your firm.
Bim Dave: Yeah, abs-
Ivy Slater: Um, and peop- we sometimes forget about that, right? We want our people to learn how to grow the valuable relationship that, that you have grown, right, and that I have grown.
But, and we want our clients, these relationships, to know more than just us. Be able to say, “If, if Vim’s out of the office for whatever reason, oh, don’t worry, you know, John has it. Mary has that.” You know? “Yeah, they, they worked on this. They know exactly…” It’s not, it’s not a bleep. I have h- I’ve had a client for several years who we transformed their firm, that they do almost no more legal work, and their clients love their attorneys.
They… And she touches base with everybody, right? She still touches base with them, but the work is not about her, and she brings people in immediately, and she, and she keeps herself as part of the relationship, but not that center point any longer. And the firm has scaled beautifully, absolutely beautifully, and peop- she has built a culture that her team and her attorneys and her paralegals and her, her office staff, they just love it.
They love working for her because it’s this inclusive environment, and so the clients win and the firm wins. Hence the win-win
Bim Dave: Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And, and ultimately when you have a team that’s empowered to, to be successful on your behalf, then they, you know, they, they, they feel positive about, you know, making a difference. So that’s, that’s really good. So the, the scale part is, is interesting. So, so really we- you get to a point where you’ve kind of got what you need to be able to feel like you can step away and, and, and the company continues to run.
And then, and then really the next step of that is, okay, how does that help me scale? So what, what, what are the kind of things that you see usually breaks first when a company tries to scale too quickly?
Ivy Slater: Um, if a company tries to scale too quickly?
What’s gonna break is the infl- infrastructure. If you have not built the infrastructure, and very often, especially in a law firm, that infrastructure is part of team, right? If we’re just grinding our team, something, something’s gonna give, something’s gonna break.
Um, we, no, but not… People are not always happy with me when I say hire earlier than you need to. Hire on the way up, not when you get there. Don’t hire when, “Oh my goodness, I need s- I need somebody full-time now,” right? When you see your, your books are increasing, your book of business is increasing, your clients are scaling, your deals are bigger, whatever area of law that is, right?
You want to hire and make… It’s a true investment. It’s an investment in your growth of the firm, and that gives you leeway to develop people to your culture, to the way you do this, to your standards, and really actually then have them help you build ’cause they’re in it with you, and that ownership is huge.
People feel so proud, and they show up even stronger when it’s that culture
Bim Dave: Mm-hmm. Indeed. How, how do you see leaders or how do you advise leaders in terms of creating accountability as part of that kind of new leadership structure that they’re building in as they’re kind of, you know, scaling to make sure that, A, they feel comfortable as, like if I’m managing partner of a business, like I wanna, I wanna make sure that things are still being delivered to a certain standard, right?
And I think the way I would look at it, I, I have the same issue, to be honest with you, is like you’re always thinking that you, you are the best at what you do, right? And, and how, how do you, how do you, how do you coach people to say, “
Actually, you can teach that to your team. You can, you can bring in people that can help you, um, scale.”
But then how do you, how do you make sure that they remain really, uh, like, uh, uh, at the right level of distance away from, from the doing, right? Because it’s very easy to then get drawn back in, if that makes sense.
Ivy Slater: So you, you said something really spot on. You are the best at what you do. I am the best at what I do, right? We are the best at what we do. The best of the best, right? Yet when we hire, we want to find great team and find their best They don’t have to be our best. We want them to be their best. Find their best, their greatest, their greatest strengths, their greatest traits, and leverage those, use those, work with those.
The things that are not as strong, give them an opportunity to develop, right? People so respect you when you’re giving them an- the ability to develop and the training to develop. But notice their strengths and call them out, because that also helps build and scale. You know, when we look in the mirror, damn, we’re the best.
Of course we are. You know? It’s taken years to get where we are. So own that, but then look and say, “I’m gonna find the best in, others, and then I am gonna be that leader that then develops the other areas.” Because guess what? We might be the best in this, but there’s probably other things we do in life that we’re not so good at, and we can then learn and develop it, right?
I’m telling you, I could learn and develop to play pickleball. if I give this enough time, I just actually might ace this, okay? I might become average, I might become above average, right? I might not be, you know, the, the, the best one out there It’s– So look at your people, see where their strengths are, where you can help them grow, and that’s building a firm.
When you have somebody with a strength in something here and something with another strength here. This person has a great attention to detail. This person argues, you know, does, does trials amazingly. This one does mediation amazingly. This person is contracts and details. Their head down and their reading and writing is just outstanding.
Find everybody’s strengths and then help develop the other areas of themselves, and then that’s part of building a whole firm as opposed to just units, if that makes sense.
Bim Dave: Yeah, it does. It really does. And I’m interested to get your take on c- on what role communication plays, um, when building out, uh, these, you know, kind of new leadership teams. Any, any, any tips and tricks on, on how to get that piece right?
Ivy Slater: It’s the most important thing of anything else. It is the most, most important thing. Communication and how we communicate wi- with others is one of the key things that is often underrated, I’m sorry to say. Um, and communication people think is about speaking, which it is, but the greatest communication skill is listening, is asking good questions and listening.
Um, I think team meetings are incredibly valuable. It’s not about telling everybody how, what they should be doing. It’s about hearing how they’re doing it and learning from one another, including the top-tier leadership. Be, be sitting in there and learn, listen. Hear not just what people are saying, but the nuances of what’s under what they’re saying, right?
So it’s like top listening and then that second-tier listening. Listen to what else is going on there. Um, when you communicate, communicate with warmth, clarity. We can be very straightforward. I can be very, very straightforward, but I don’t have to be harsh. I don’t have to be obnoxious, right? I also, if I could communicate in a straightforward way, I wanna make sure that person actually doesn’t just hear what I said, but understands what I say.
So there goes that listening again, right? So we want, we wanna kind of acknowledge and validate back to people, so when somebody’s speaking to us, we say, “Oh, so actually what you’re explaining to me is this,” right?
We don’t repeat it word for word, but we ex- show that we truly understand the concept. And when we do that, how much more can we trust people to do the work that we delegate?
‘Cause we truly know they understand it. They didn’t just hear it
Bim Dave: Yeah, very true. So, so I, I wanna kind of talk a little bit more about, um, some of the, the impacts that we see happening to law firms today around, in, in, in two key areas. One I think is around the people, um, the people focus and, and what’s changing there in terms of some of the talent that’s kind of rising up, um, through, through the ranks that is very different to, um, to, to the past, right?
In terms of they come with a slightly different skill set, different communication style, um, different level of expectations. Like, th- things are, things have changed there. Um, and then, and then we’ll move on to kind of the technology piece, which I think is the, the other big, big area. But in terms of the people part of it, what, what should firms be doing to pr- to prepare for this next generation of leadership that is so different to, to what might have been the traditional leader of the past?
Ivy Slater:Um, we have, we have to understand the different generations, and we have to s- have to understand their values and what’s important to them. And I think it’s when we come back to value alignment. So we could be working differently, right? We have different work methodology. Um, I’ve had clients say to me, “I don’t understand how they could be on their computer and there’s an earbud in their ear.”
And like, wh-wh-why Ivy? Like, what, what the hell are they listening to if they’re working? I, I, I’ve, I’ve heard it. I see it as– I see your smile, right? We, we’ve seen it and heard it, right? Um, how can this be going on? We keep an open space, be inquisitive, ask questions. Also look at the value of their work, right?
If the work value is good, if the communication between us and between our people are good, right? We have to be open. Just because we’ve done it this way so many times doesn’t mean this is the way it’s gonna continue. We, we as leaders mean– So in essence, what I’m saying is we as leaders want to be open to learning ourselves.
It might not be what we will do in the future, but we wanna o- be open to learning and understanding. ‘Cause unless we do that, we can’t understand the different generations, and then we just end up butting heads. You know, we- we’re looking to fit them into our mold
It’s not necessarily gonna work that way. Um, it, it’s, it’s just not. People are on their technology. Some people are working much more, but we have no idea if they’re working or if they’re on Instagram because they’re on their phone doing this, you know? Um, we have, we have no idea. So we also have to look at the quality of the work and, you know, the– And I think one of the most important things is one of the things I, I said before but I didn’t really highlight, is understand the values.
So if your people are aligned with the values of the firm and you understand what those values are, and they show up, it might not be your way, but they show up in the, in align with the values and their work is good, we wanna be open to learning as well
Bim Dave: I, I guess in some ways, um, having different types of talent from different generations is also good for growth, right? Because when I think about the client perspective, some of the clients we may be selling to are from similar generations and maybe don’t get, you know, the way that I might think, for example.
Um, but you know, if I bring someone in who’s maybe a little younger and a little more aware of being able to, you know, listen to music and do work at the same time or, you know, connect on a different level, um, perhaps that leads to, you know, growth in terms of, you know, markets and people that you may not be able to sell to traditionally
Ivy Slater: Absolutely. And you have to realize people are, especially with technology, we have success in so many different age brackets. at your team, we want to be representative of diff- we, we, we don’t wanna just be a bunch of older people. We’re gonna miss– We- our, our firm is not gonna have the legacy. We’re not gonna have that staying power, right?
We’re gonna age. The whole firm will age out, and then we struggle to catch up. So in embracing the younger generations and all generations, you know, 60s, 50s, you know, 40s, 30, the whole thing, right? And see the value they bring
And, and, and expand on it, you know? But it’s the value ma- the key is the value alignment of the firm and your people is a must for that to be
Bim Dave: Yeah, makes sense. So, so let’s, let’s talk a little bit more about, um, technology and the technology impact because I think that’s the other big, big area. So when we think about, uh, succession planning in particular, does, does the, the kind of focus around or the ability to be able to implement AI and technology, does that make it easier or harder from, from your perspective?
Ivy Slater: Um, yes. Easier and harder. I’ll just say yes, it does. Um, so technology and AI is making a lot of things easier, okay? It, it, it is. It’s making writing easier. It’s making, um, uh, coding easier. It’s making so many things easier, okay? And more accessible, okay? What’s making it harder is we have to have guidelines, right? This is new.
Every time there’s something new, we have to, um, intentionally create guidelines. Uh, every firm, every firm that I speak to, “Do you have an AI policy in place for your people? Do people understand it?” Okay? I’ve heard time and time again off the cuff, “Well, I can’t do it here, so I just kinda do it on my personal iPad, and then I bring it over.”
I’m like, “No, no, no, no, no.” Right? We really have to have true structures and guidelines to protect firms. On the other hand, we also have to have guidelines in our retainers and our agreements with our clients, okay? It is, to me, frightening as anything of a document goes to the client, and the client just throws it into, even if they think it’s protected, okay?
And we don’t only know so much, but they throw it into AI and say, “What else should I be asking my attorney? Is everything covered here?” And the vulnerability of that happening is massive, right? So every time we have advancements, we have amazing opportunity, which is absolutely fantastic. Um, as leaders, I’m gonna say, it also gives us a responsibility that we have to put systems and guidelines in place, and we have to think and commu- it goes back, Ben, what you said before.
We have to communicate with clarity. We have to be communicating to our people. We have to be communicating to our clients. We need to be communicating of not just what the guidelines are, but why they’re important. ‘Cause people will push back when you give them rules. It’s human nature. We push back when we get rules.
Like, how can we push against the rules? But we have the understanding of why this is in place. We then say, “Oh, let me think about this.” Because it’s not about the rule, it’s about the thought process.
Bim Dave: Yeah. No, absolutely. And, and you make a really good point in terms of our, you know, ability to become DIY lawyers, um, with, with ChatGPT or, or another platform. So, so with that in mind, um, are you seeing l- law firm leaders trying to start to plan about how they’re going to be pricing their work in future, um, given, given the, the, the kind of concept of the hour may, may not be as, as, as, as, as meaningful, I guess, to, to, to cust- to their client base in, in future?
And, and actually there’s a technology piece that they’re investing in because we- we’re, you know, kind of hearing of, of law firms, you know, investing millions of dollars in their cloud and AI transformation to enable them to be more efficient in how they deliver. Um, so I’m just interested to get your take on like what, what are you seeing from, um, from law firm leaders in that respect?
Ivy Slater: There is a lot of conversation. I don’t think there’s a conclusion as of yet. Um, but there’s been conversation of should we package things as opposed to hourly things? Um, do we, uh… It, it’s interesting because you still have to, even if you expedite create, you know, let’s say creation of documents You still have to read it, and you have to have several people re- you, like, you have to read things with a fine-tooth comb because there’s nuances, right?
When you’re writing legally, there’s nuances, and there’s nuances in deals and things like that. That type of thing is never trusted to AI. That is a human experience based on experience. I want my attorney, you know, to guide me. I want them to think, right? I want them to think not just, you know, like we talked about listening and the several levels of listening.
I want them to think more than one level. Like, I don’t want them to give this a scan and say it looks good. It’s like, no, no, no, that’s my business on the line in that transaction, or that’s my estate on the line in that transaction, or right? Whatever it’s looking like. I, I want somebody who really is going to take the time because the investment there is worth the weight in gold.
Um, you know, I think we’re gonna have an ev- evolution. I think every time you have an intersection, right? Meaning you have a birth of something, you have an intersection of, um, the Industrial Revolution all those years ago, the, the beginning of, of the internet, right? “Oh, what’s gonna happen?” Right? That I, I g- back in printing, it was like, you know, we used to get…
We used to send messengers to pick up bids, you know, to g- to get them back to the office, and then you had a certain amount of days because then you had to send it back out. You had all this time, and then came the fax machine, and they, they just kind of rolled onto your floor, right? In moments, and they’re like, “Okay, so how quickly are you gonna roll it back to me?”
It’s like, well, we still have all this process to do. So every time there’s an evolution, we have an opportunity to grow, and I think the firms that h- are panicking or are fearful are the ones who are gonna have the problems. The ones who are leaning into it and learning and saying, “Okay,” you know, especially small to middle firm, mid-size firms, they’re not taking millions of dollars and investing into high-tech cloud platforms, et cetera, et cetera, right?
And AI, this, that, and the other thing, and all. And I, I know, uh, robots that are coming into firms and whatever else that is. Got it? They’re not the ones investing in it, and they are the huge, you know, conglomerate when you add them all up globally. There’s so many of the small to mid-size firms. I think there’s a massive place here, and I think it’s a massive opportunity because I think they could work effectively to begin with, and I think the value add for them is huge.
Bim Dave: Yeah, I, I agree. The opportunity is, is tremendous, um, if played correctly. And I’m al- I’m also smiling a little bit because of your mention of the fax machine, because I had to explain to my daughter what a fax machine was the other day. So if anyone’s listening, you know, who’s a little younger, uh, go look it up on Goo- on Google.
It’s an in- interesting concept.
Ivy Slater: It, it, it wa- it was a very im– But every time you have that kind of evolution and that inflection, right? You have, you have progress, and it’s, it, it takes time for it to settle into what we can create into systems
Bim Dave: Hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, so what are some of the actionable things that we can kind of leave our audience with today? If somebody’s listening and they’re, they’re leading a, a law firm, what are some of the practical things that you would suggest that they start doing this quarter?
Ivy Slater: Um, number one, uh, this is something I recently, uh, spoke at a symposium and I spoke to a few hundred lawyers and I said, “Here’s what I’m gonna suggest you’re gonna do.” And several of them actually said, “You know, I actually did it. It was miserable, but it was really helpful.” Um, so here, here’s one tip: take two weeks, write down everything you do.
Now, the instinct is for an attorney to then look at me and say, I do that already. I keep my hours.” I’m like, “No, no, no, no, no. I’m not talking about just writing down all the work you do.” Write down everything you do. Keep a true log of everything for two solid weeks, and then take a look at what you can be doing, okay?
Meaning if you, if you did it on an Excel sheet, if you did it on a legal pad, you could highlight it in two different colors. One highlighter is everything that is delegatable, okay? That you really don’t wanna do anymore. It’s easy. Let it go, right? We’re gonna find those people to do it. The next highlighter is everything you enjoy doing, but somebody else can be doing.
And that all of a sudden, now you start seeing where the in- where the opportunities are, are for you in hiring for your firm, right? And when you do that, we can see who to hire, and then you can also start seeing that the axis doesn’t always have to resolve around you. You get a good picture of saying, “Oh, this is where if anything ever happened, my firm would have a problem.”
‘Cause that if… There’s, there’s a little story built in there
Bim Dave: I love that. That’s, that’s a great, great suggestion, and I’m sure very eye-opening when, once it’s down on paper
Ivy Slater: That, that’s my biggest tip because it gives us so much information. And then building the support team in various areas. They sometimes are full-time, sometimes they’re part-time, sometimes they’re, uh, fractional. It looks in a variety of directions. Um, my other tip is stay current with what is available to you out there. Stay current. There’s an enormous amount of modernization, not just with, uh, AI, but in business itself. Stay current
Bim Dave: Brilliant. Ex-excellent advice. So thank you for that. I, I wanna move to a couple of, uh, final fun wrap-up questions, if I may. The first of which, if you could go back to yourself at age 18, what advice would you give yourself?
Ivy Slater: Um, oh goodness. At age 18, um, honestly, your daughter’s gonna love this one. Listen to your parents with less resistance
Bim Dave: I love that. Yes
Ivy Slater: My parents said to me at 18, you know, “You can go to college and get a degree in dance as long as you g- and we, we will support you as long as you get a degree in something that pays the bills.” And I was like, “Oh, come on. You know, I could just get a minor in something else. It’s fine. I can go to conservatory.”
I– The whole thing. Listening to my parents, I got a degree in something that pays the bills, and I learned business
Bim Dave: Excellent. That’s good advice, and I’ll definitely be replaying that if nothing else. Um, and fi- final question. So, so we’ve, we’ve just won the lottery tomorrow, uh, going back to your earlier example. Where, where are we going? Give, give me a favorite travel destination that, that you’d want to go to
Ivy Slater: So, um, a couple of things, uh, three things on my hot list in the next bunch of years. Uh, I was supposed to be going to Morocco, uh, the week that COVID, of the COVID shutdown in this world. So it’s, haven’t made it there yet. Still wanna go. Um, I have a desire to do Asia, do Thailand and, and, uh, Singapore, and we’re talking about that possibly, uh, later in ’27
Bim Dave: Amazing. I
Ivy Slater: So, uh, where are you joining me?
What do you think?
Bim Dave: I, I, I would’ve, I would’ve definitely gone, um, Asia as well, and Singapore’s definitely on m- one of my bucket lists. I’ve been to Thailand before and loved it. Um, so Singapore’s definitely up there, uh, for me. So yes, you may– we, we may, we may meet each other again.
Ivy Slater: We’ll coordinate it
Bim Dave: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Ivy, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show today. Thank you for spending this time with me. For people that may wanna learn a little bit more about, uh, what your company does, what’s the best way to find you?
Ivy Slater: The easiest thing to do is to go to our website, www.slatersuccess.com, and of course, feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn and let me know you, you?
Heard “The Legal Helm Podcast.”
Bim Dave: Fantastic. Ivy, thank you again.
Ivy Slater: Thank you, Bim